Last spring, a friend suggested that I consider joining MENSA, the group for highly intelligent people. Without any false humility, I’m reasonably sure that I’d qualify, but I don’t think I’ll bother, even though joining might extend my circle of acquaintances. Groucho Marx’s comment about not wanting to belong to a club that would invite him to join aside, I dislike the thought of being evaluated before I can join. I also suspect that a club based on intelligence is a false sort of elitism, with misplaced criteria for membership.
Part of my reluctance is a deep-seated dislike of being evaluated. When I was in Grade One, I needed speech therapy to pronounce a hard “c” properly, and was shunted into the slow readers’ group solely on that basis. The appropriateness of that assessment is indicated by the fact that, by the end of the year, I was reading at a Grade 7 level, but the unfairness has left me with a lifelong detestation of tests and evaluations. Report cards, job performances – anything of the sort sets off an alarm and a sense of injustice in me. So, right from the start, the idea of writing an intelligence test in order to belong to a group unsettles me. Although I usually do well on tests, I don’t exactly seek them out.
At any rate, I don’t approve of self-appointed elitism. I’ve always believed that, if you have any talents, you should be self-deprecating about them, and people will appreciate them without you having to trumpet them (how I actually worked in marketing for a couple of years with that attitude escapes me now). In fact, if you have to trumpet your abilities, then either you over-rate them or you need to work on your insecurities (don’t we all). And if you don’t have them — well, better to stay silent in that case, too.
Besides, the elitism of MENSA has always seem misplaced to me. The first MENSA member I ever knew usually found a way to mention his membership within ten minutes of meeting a new person, and I don’t remember a single conversation in which he didn’t boast about his affiliation. He was fond of hiking solo, and despite repeated warnings and having been lost on several occasions, insisted on continuing the practice. He died in his early twenties because he fell off a cliff while taking a short cut on a trail. I don’t know, but I’ve always imagined him thinking that he knew better than the posted warnings because he was supposed to be intelligent. That would have been just like him.
To be fair, other MENSA members I’ve met since haven’t been so conceited. Yet, at the same time, most of them haven’t been extraordinary people, either, although they all had something of the same sense that they were special that the young hiker had. So, with all respect, I suspect that intelligence alone is an insufficient criteria for being an interesting or accomplished person.
Personally, I’d rather hang out with people who have done something. I’m really far less interested in people who are quick with a pun or able to cite knowingly the latest geeky reference than in people who are experts in their chosen fields. When I hear a writer talk about her latest work, a free software developer enthusing about the new features in his upcoming release or executives talking about expanding their business, I don’t care about their intelligence. What I respond to is their obvious love of what they’re doing. Imagination and enthusiasm are what make these people worth spending time with; their intelligence is interesting only so far as it supports these traits.
Nor, in my experience, do you find many such impassioned people who are fixtures in their local MENSA chapter. The reason, I suspect, is that they don’t need the validation of hanging around a self-proclaimed elite. They’re too busy with what they love – and they’re all the more interesting for their preoccupation.
I could mention, too, the shortcomings of all existing measures of intelligence, but that’s a topic for another day. The real point is, by demeanor, temperament, and preferences, I’m just not likely to fit in an organization like MENSA. I’m sure that, for some people, especially when young, MENSA can be a much-needed refuge, but, for me, belonging to the group would be looking for companionship in the wrong place. I simply don’t value intelligence as an isolated quality – or myself – as much as most MENSA members apparently do.
Off the Wall 
Funny you mention your encounter with a MENSA member who worked that fact into conversations.
I knew someone who did that very thing 15 years ago, and found his need to do so quite annoying.
Never thought highly of MENSA since.
I find it is the same with people who go to Ivy League colleges. For some, there is a need to impress that I don’t quite grasp. There are so many different types of “smarts”, which no test can reveal. In my opinion, real intelligence comes from ones ability to adapt to situations and overcome adversity; not from a Scantron and a #2 pencil.
“Well, I don’t know about you chaps, but I think – as a MENSA member – that your opinions are completely unfounded. It’s like I was telling the guys…you know…at MENSA…the other day…(we always get together, us MENSA guys, every 2nd Wednesday after the Blue Moon, for our MENSA meeting)…”
Blah…
I took my GRE to get into grad-school, and apparently a 1250 is the bullet score to get into MENSA…so I’m qualified…but I also cannot help but feel this amazing sense of conceit in paying dues to say I’m in the smart-people club…
And honestly, I’m afraid that someday I’d find myself spouting just that trite nonsense above, namedropping MENSA left and right, while annoying all the people smarter than me who knew not to join such a silly club…
…
But some small part of me is thrilled at the idea of being “MENSA qualified” and having turned it down…that’s a club in itself. It’s like applying to Harvard Business school, just so you – on the off chance you get accepted – can reject their acceptance!
Don’t mean to be harsh, but you seem to be projecting your own pretensions onto the group. You’ve met a few members, yet you feel qualified to cast judgment over the entire club. Could it be that some members just enjoy the company and conversation of other intelligent people and are not in it to have something to brag about at cocktail parties? The only one mentioning anything about intelligence as criteria for being interesting or accomplished is you.
For every one time your hiking buddy mentioned Mensa I ‘d be willing to bet you’ve brought up your 7th grade reading level story at least 5. In fact this whole article seems to be your way of saying “Sorry I wont be able to make it tonight, I have a MENSA meeting at 6”
I didn’t mean to come off so severe but you reminded me of those annoying Bloggers who announces the fact that they have a blog every chance they get. Don’t you just hate them:)
Just thought your article was little narrow minded, thats all. No hard feelings.
You take the time to write a personal attack on somebody you don’t know, and you say you don’t mean to be harsh? Let’s be serious: of course you do. You just want to think of yourself as a nice person while you’re being harsh.
As for judging a group by the members I’ve met, what else am I going to do if not extrapolate from my experience? That’s known as inductive logic. Nor did I ever claimed to be conducting a scientific survey.
I also wonder how you imagine someone can talk about personal experience without mentioning relevant details about themselves. But, for the record, I can’t remember the last time I mentioned my early reading ability in conversation to anyone; it would be pathetic to boast about something like that as an adult. At most, I may have referred obliquely to it in blog posts about early reading experiences, but that simply goes with the subject.
Obviously, the entry hit you the wrong way for some reason, so you chose to take a little tour through my life, cherrypicking bits you thought would make a good personal attack. You wouldn’t happen to be a Mensa member yourself, would you?
“As for judging a group by the members I’ve met…” No, you’re judging the group by the members you’ve met that you were aware were members. See the difference there?
“Personally, I’d rather hang out with people that have done something.” What logic leads you to believe that Mensans aren’t people that have “done something”? I’m a Mensa member, and I hang out regularly with people who have done WAY more “things” than I ever will: authors, scientists, inventors, attorneys, you name it.
I don’t need validation. I know who I am. So do others, whether I’m a member of any high-IQ organizations or not. What I do need is the chance to socialize regularly with people like me, because constant exposure to even people of average intelligence — and the culture that they’ve created — is exhausting, mind-numbing, and unfulfilling. If you find that sentiment “elitist,” you may _not_ be Mensa material. There’s nothing wrong with that, but in the same way that someone who’s never seen or felt snow can ever understand how cold snow is regardless of how many people try and describe it to them, the mental capabilities and viewpoint that come along with being WAY over to the right on the bell curve are simply outside your frame of reference. One acquaintance of mine is a “triple-niner.” It doesn’t bother me a bit, when I talk to him, to realize, ungrudgingly, that I will never be able to know what it’s like to live the life that comes along with his brain.
Pointing out elitism surely has more to do with egalitarian sensibilities than any lack of intelligence.
Bruce,
I just felt you judged the entire group based on your interactions with only a few people. Didn’t mean to sound so standoffish. No hard feelings.
Not all of us boast about such things. It seems as if you are just looking for something to carp about. You met somebody once who rubbed you the wrong way. Big deal–every person who reads this has had that experience.
Mensa is a social group and you might be able to join or not. Either way, get over it.
Well I read your Boredom rant and feel i am lacking mental resources. Did you start this blog out of Boredom?
Are you supposed to be smart? Your punctuation is lacking.
I’m a Mensa member because my friend suggested I take it so I could put on my Grad. School applications. I passed, big deal. The Mensa test like any other IQ type test doesn’t actually rate how intelligent you are (note, I can’t spell very well), it only tests your ability to figure things out from context and how well you can learn. Some people think they are special because of, others know we are not.
Most social groups have criteria that must be met in order to join, Golf Clubs, Churches, Alumni groups, etc. The main way communities are formed is through a seperation of ‘us’ and ‘the other’. The seperations are based of differing criteria, Mensa’s just so happens to be a test score, not your ethnicity, not your religion, not how wealthy you are, it’s just another social group. No big deal.
And you are correct, how else to make your opinions of things other than by your own experiences?
I was a Mensa member for a while. I never got into it all that much, to be honest, but after reading your comments, I’m going to renew my membership just to piss you off.
Why would I be pissed off by the actions of somebody I don’t even know? You want to do something foolish, that’s your right.
Hey guys, this is what a superior human mind looks like! Just like everyone else’s. Surprise!
I have to agree a bit with Dienda Time. You met a few people and decided that all 150,000 members across the world are like the few jerks you have met.
High I.Q. doesn’t mean anything if you can’t translate the ability to problem solve, find obscure patterns and think abstractly into something useful -whether you use it to be as a writer, scientist, actor, teacher, plumber, mechanic, whatever. It also doesn’t make you charming or witty or give you empathy, but there are plenty of people I know who are tremendously smart, charming, talented in their field and thoughtful of others. They see both the big picture and how the small bits fit so when something is going awry – or will go awry – they can help solve the problem. Some members of Mensa meet to discuss the various schools of though that define string theory; some just get together to watch “Lost.” Some just play poker; others have writer’s groups.
Don’t judge and entire group of people from the .002% of them that you actually have had contact with. While it may be your personal experience, you experience is clearly limited.
You will find that some members Mensa are elitist, self-aggrandizing asses. You will find those in just about any group of people. But you also find well-rounded, kinds individuals who like to hang out together. I don’t think you should have such an issue with that.
It’s funny how easily people connected with Mensa seem to take offence. I never said anything about everyone in Mensa being jerks.
I simply said that belonging to Mensa was not any guarantee that you were an interesting or creative person — and that’s basically what you say in your second paragraph, Rowan.
Bryce, you put down Mensa members as being sure of their being someone “special: even though you did not, in large part, find them to be anything more than ordinary, lacking in passion and enthusiasm, and who needed the validation of hanging out with the self-proclaimed elite. Then you are surprised that any member of the group would take offense.
And while I strongly believe that enthusiasm and imagination are key to hiring people in certain jobs, if I come across someone with these traits who is also very intelligent, I will hire that person over someone who cannot understand, think, and/or reason as quickly.
I don’t recall Mensa ever projecting itself to be a group of wildly creative or interesting people. It’s initial purpose was to have smart people on hand to help Great Britain get stability back after WWII. That said, I have yet to find a Special Interest Group that is tackling the issues like universal healthcare, the homeless situation or the failure of not only public schools, but the millions of dollars that go into special needs kids programs that are also a failure. These kids need help that works. I found one that told me they did tackle issues such as these, but in the 13 years of this group’s existence, they have not once taken any of their ideas beyond group discussion. While there is nothing saying that all SIGs must be socially relevant and try take action – it would be nice if one was.
“intelligence alone is an insufficient criteria”…Tut, tut. That should be “insufficient criterion”. Criteria is the plural of criterion and should only be used when you are talking about more than one factor. Doubt if you’d get in to Mensa anyway. People who keep blogs are far more conceited than Mensans, in my experience. ;o)
You’re right about the use of “criteria” and “criterion.” But anyone who uses a grammatical mistake in a casual setting as a means of personal attack clearly suffers from intellectual poverty. Your effort at insult says more about your own struggles to feel superior to a world that intimidates you than anything about me.
As for the general nature of bloggers, at least they’re trying to produce something. That has to be more worthwhile than petty sniping at someone else’s efforts.
Bryce, did you not see Mick’s emoticon? It was a winking smiley face which implies he was just playfully teasing you.
I saw it. But emoticons can be used for a lot of things. In this case, I doubt playfulness was intended, especially since I don’t know the person.
The only thing I’ve ever seen a someone use the winky-eyed emoticon to let the other person know that they’re teasing. If you know of other reasons to wink after a comment like that…
I love it when comment sections turn into a contest to see who can leave the douchiest remarks:)
Do I win???
Now here’s something to think about. So you met some obnoxious people who couldn’t get through a sentence without mentioning a mensa affiliation 600 times. For this reason you think all mensa people are obnoxious. What if you actually HAVE met other mensa members…who weren’t obnoxious…but you didn’t know they were in mensa because they weren’t shoving it down your throat.
Maybe it’s only the obnoxious ones who go around telling you about it.
If you read the entry, you’ll find that I add that not all Mensa members have that habit.
Call me crazy, but I laughed out loud at the story about your “gifted” friend. A guy who’s in Mensa but still manages to be a Grade A retard by accidentally killing himself.
Being convinced of your own intelligence is the first sign of stupidity. Socrates, I think, said something along the lines of “true wisdom is realizing you have no real knowledge”.
That said, I read in an article one time that Mensa is more or less a place for underachievers to hang out. The people who may be smart, but have nothing better to do with their smarts than hang around at Mensa. The really smart people, the article reasoned, are too busy to waste their time swapping puns and bon mots.
That said, I’m sure it’s a wonderful group. Also, this blog is by far the best I’ve read all week. Byfield is also a very cool name. Please don’t flame me.
I appreciate your point of view in this article. I was searching online for the terms “how hard is it to get into mensa” and a few search results confirmed to me it is relatively easy. I realize that that’s not the point I should be looking at.
A friend of mine took this MENSA test and got accepted. She did boast about it quite a bit. I have NEVER been the studious type. Back at school she was crazy about Maths and top of the class. Once-just once- I actually studied for a maths exam, I didn’t kill myself…And I got a near perfect score. She didn’t do very well although she was very confident about it.
During the year, while I was getting Cs and Ds, she continued to get A*s… One parents meeting my mother came home to tell me that the teacher told her he was positive that I was just as ‘clever’ as my friend, but that she studied more than I did. I took it to heart, and started to study. We both graduated with As 🙂
Recently I met a man who rejected me because of his supposed intellectual superiority. I won’t deny he is a master of the English language and is quite an intellectual. But once again someone has managed to make me feel stupid. Because he (like my friend) parades his smarts on others. He openly tells people (in so many words) that he is extremely intelligent and is looking for somebody as bright as he is.
I know that I will probably get into Mensa, I do well in IQ quizzes and I have a passion for number puzzles, Maths and Logic in general. But what I keep coming back to is the point that you just made… (I will stop blabbing and get to the point)..:
Does “knowing” you are smart justify your so-called intelligence, or is it the contrary: realizing your own limitations, and stupidity. There is hardly a good reason to parade about your own intelligence just because you believe it can be measured and ranked. As you mentioned: “the shortcomings of all existing measures of intelligence” should be taken into consideration.
I wonder sometimes how smart I am. It would be nice to have a little piece of paper to tell me i am part of an elite group of highly intelligent people. But judging from the uninteresting, egoistic types I have interacted with, it is hardly a compliment.
In my life, I’ve come across some extremely intelligent and capable people, many of whom are famous in their fields. I can’t remember even one who boasted about their abilities. I suspect they were too busy using them.
When people parade their supposed I.Q. around it’s due to their insecurities. The friend you had from school and the knobhead you dated sound horribly insecure – and lacking in manners. The only time people find out about my membership is if they specifically ask me.
Take pity on the man who thinks he’s “superior” to you. He needs pats on the back to feel good about himself and is damaged enough emotionally to think that by putting you down, it makes him seem better than you. Of course we know that opposite is true.
As for taking the test – why not do it just as a brain teaser challenge? Stephen Hawking took it after his ALS really started to affect him, just to see if he was losing any of his logic and reasoning skills. You don’t need a piece of paper to tell you you’re smart and that is not what the organization is supposed to be about anyway. If you take it, just take it as as series of puzzles and stumpers – nothing more, nothing less. If your grade is in the top 2% of test takers, fine. If not, so what?
Just please stop grouping everyone with a high I.Q. as some snobbish prat with no social decorum or people skills.
Bruce, it’s a very interesting article you wrote. I can definitely understand where you’re coming from. I think the point you’re making is that you don’t find a social High-IQ Club a place you’d wish to join anytime soon based on your experience and perception of what some of these Mensa members might be like. Although I do understand this reasoning, to be truly fair in making such conclusive statements in your last few paragraphs, I would have to say that you first must at the very least go to a couple of Mensa meetings (as a guest) and experience it for yourself, otherwise it’s just a perceptive opinion on your behalf and not a statement of factual experience.
As far as I’m concerned, I do qualify for Mensa also but never kept membership. First, I don’t like the cost of membership for what I would be getting and using. Secondly, I abhor pretentious and self righteous types of people. Not all are like this, but I find that there are plenty. And this includes other societies and groups such as college honor societies, Engineering societies, and even millionaire clubs, etc.. etc.. I have personally experienced the demeanor of such uppity types, and even as a well respected peer, I feel totally out of place. I find that it is basically based on my historic upbringing from whence I came.. a street hoodic rise from the ashes. You can take a boy out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the boy. And so, like your first few paragraphs, you also realize why you have also become so critical of these types of self assured people. To basically simplify this complex equation into a single workable function, it’s because your character and personality is at another level above the majority of those you find outside of your upbringing. I believe that ‘Maslow’s Pyramid Hierarchy of Needs’ puts you at the very top need for ‘Truth’, ‘Justice’, ‘Wisdom’, and ‘Meaning’, above those who merely seek ‘Recognition’, ‘Attention’, or ‘Social Status’. And please, let’s not make another club out of that too! ;D
I know I’m very late to this party but this is my 2c worth:
I think Mensans get a lot of bad press simply because a handful of them who are self-aggrandising – similar to those you have described. Logically then yes, you would extrapolate that out to the entire Mensan population. It’s a sample after all.
However, when you meet a new person there’s a chance they’re in Mensa, but you don’t know it until they say it, which of course reads as bragging. So is there a chance that you know a lot of Mensans who just don’t tell you for fear of the inevitable animosity that ensues? So how does that affect your sample?
The fact that this logic is overlooked time and time again proves that such people would indeed not be “intelligent” enough to join.
I joined recently at the age of 30. I learned at a very young age that people don’t like you when you’re smarter than them (including my parents for reasons of their own) and sabotaged my life to “fit in”. You realise you can never truly be yourself as you will inevitably intimidate others who react negatively, further compounding your low self-esteem. You have to talk yourself down to be accepted.
Ironically, I’m now facing higher-level job interviews where I’m supposed to be talking myself up, “selling” myself. The complete opposite of a lifetime of habit, and needless to say I’m finding it incredibly difficult. Perhaps this is why Mensa members are often “underachievers”?
I think there are altogether too many generalizations being thrown around here. “All Mensans are X,” or the more verbose version of the generalization, “I knew a Mensan who was X so that’s enough to keep me away from an organization of Mensans because they’re probably all just like him.” If this isn’t the version of the generalization that was intended in the first entry of this blog, it nevertheless comes across as such. Another one: “Perhaps this is why [all] Mensa members are often ‘underachievers.'” Says who? Where’s the hard data on this one? Or is it based on someone’s very small (read: n = 1 again) sample? “I’ve come across some extremely intelligent and capable people, many of whom are famous in their fields. I can’t remember even one who boasted about their abilities.” O.K. not exactly a generalization; more an example of selective memory. Again, nothing scientific about this at all. It’s just what you choose to/can remember and we all know about the human brain’s tendency in this situations, don’t we? (Read the book The Invisible Gorilla). This sort of “I don’t remember the one thing that if I did remember would totally undermine my larger point” reasoning is not very convincing, to say the least. If I’ve met one or two Harvard grads (and I assure you, I have) who’ve told me more than once, in different conversations, on different days, that they graduated from Harvard, what does that mean about Harvard grads, or the desirability of a degree from Harvard. Right, not much!
Firstly, I didn’t say all.
Secondly, there is a general tendency for highly intelligent people to underachieve for numerous reasons, like wanting to fit in, disliking the hostility shown towards you, realising the futility of existence, etc. Futility of existence is a big issue. Thinking outside the box has it’s benefits, but when you’re so far outside the box that you hit the existential wall, it’s really hard to bring the contents of the box back into focus.
My post was merely in defence of the assumption that people sit IQ tests to compensate for underachievement. Considering that high IQ is often the reason, then it makes sense to try to pinpoint that reason in order to prevent a further downward spiral. This attack is usually from people who have been more “successful” in life in a more traditional sense, so that they can feel better about themselves. If they’ve “worked hard” (reads: had everything handed to them on a plate, and/or not had the burden of over-thinking every social interaction or getting lost on a more interesting tangent), and can still achieve above and beyond a person with a higher IQ then they really must be “better”. If that person with a higher IQ has slipped down the ladder of “success” then nothing should be able to prop them back up again. Not even a Mensa membership. After all, “success” is relative.
There are other points I’d like to argue, but meh. Life will never be the theoretical perfection that I crave, so what’s the point?
I put off taking the test for a long time because I didn’t want to come across as elitist, and am sorry. The group has a lot to offer.
It is hard to meet people outside work, and there are a lot of really stupid people I don’t have any common interests or views and cannot have good conversations with. 4 years with a girlfriend that probably was Mensa material, going back to dating has made me aware how important meeting smart people is.
As far as being elitist, I come off as being obviously nerdy/smart/high IQ stereotype. That isn’t always positive – a lot of people see me as “Rain man”. Look at the real elite – people in high public office, CEOs, millionaires, athletes and actors – how many do you think qualify for Mensa? I am no more elite than if I were a member of the “Over 7 foot tall” club or “adults weighing less than 100lbs” – even though most people wish they were taller and thinner.
I also realized I have no place bashing the group or ironically feeling superior for not joining before I actually took the test and qualified. Had I have failed, I’d feel foolish.
Mensa is definitely elitist and maybe Nazism since you have to be of a superior calibur to join.
It represnts a flaw in society.
let them have their ivory tower
It gives me the feeling of the Walden society project. You cannot create perfection or have expectations so high to think you are the one controling the outcomes. I think it’s a bit creepy. Is it okay to use the word creepy? or do I sound dumb? No validation needed, just being funny. I have a solid ground of my autonomy and efficacy while they are still seeking high school validation levels in their own weird way. I’d rather join 4H.
Okay, I take offense at calling Mensa Nazism. You are diminishing what Nazism was and insulting the memory of 6 million Jews, not to mention Catholic nuns, priests, gypsies, gays. Mensa is NOTHING like Nazism, and I think you need to think before you spout such utter nonsense.
Thank you for this site. I have never looked for affirmation of my intelligence or sought out the approval of others. I recently found a friend who has posted not once, but twice, that she was now a part of the young mensa club on Facebook of all places! This was a dig towards me as I am a 4.0 adult student who attended a college campus in my youth and now online. It is as though she is trying to chanllenge me by her announcements. This is her way of reminding me of how she feels about adjunct studies. I find no special group of any kind to be above anyone else’s intelligence. Life is defined by our self autonomy not another’s perspective of statistical achievements.
D~
Donna,
Here’s some food for thought: For someone who isn’t looking for validation, you’ve spent time finding a site that bashes Mensa, which, gives you – what? Validation of your feelings.
You claim you don’t care, yet you take it as a personal affront that someone you know joined Mensa and posted that fact on her Facebook page. Why do you think that your friend took a test and spent $59 jus to simply to piss you off? Could it just be that she wanted to join a group of people she is interested in? Maybe she likes some of their activities. Maybe it just makes her happy. Maybe it gives her confidence, she same way that make-up or doing your hair before an important meeting does.
You say that life is defined by our self autonomy not another’s perspective of statistical achievements. But you also let us know that you have a 4.0 average in college. You clearly do care about statistical achievements and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as you temper it with being a kind, mature person.
You want to stop giving you crap about online courses, then stop reacting to her. She’ll stop when she gets bored, and if she doesn’t, un-friend her from Facebook and stop hanging around her.
Bitter much? Sorry but I did not seek this site out, it popped up when I hit the word MENSA and I found it truthful. And why should I be a direct hit with comments since there are others who have described worse feelings than I? I never said she tested to spite me, I am not narcissistic, and that is really looking into my words a bit much as that was a tiny bit over analytical of my comment. Or was there something you identified with and felt angered enough to just shout at me? After all of one’s schooling and practicums why do you need to pay someone a fee to reaffirm what your GRE or even you GPA already states (hense the only reason I mentioned my GPA)? Obviously something I said made you think a bit much about who you are if you felt the need to be so defensive in response to my comment (tisk tisk on your language). Good luck on your inner efficacy that it obviously pining for apologizes and validation from others who do not feel it is necessary to pay for acceptance and understanding of one’s own intellect. Blessings! 🙂
Wow, you do have a persecution complex. First you take umbrage at someone you know joining a club that has nothing to do with you, then you get upset that you posted on a website and someone responded without the head-patting and hugging you were looking for.
I’m not bitter at all, but I was pointing out how you obviously are. It didn’t take more than a second to feel the anger at your “friend” in your post. And now you back-pedal. Your words were clear. If she got some satisfaction from taking and passing a test, it is no different than your touting your 4.0 grade average by the standard you set. Now you are splitting hairs.
I don’t identify with you at all. If someone I know joins a club that they enjoy, I’m happy that they are happy. You, on the other hand took her happy announcement as a dig at you. You don’t want her to let people know on her own Facebook page because it makes you feel like you’re being attacked. It has nothing to do with you. So, yeah, you are being narcissistic.
And as far as my language goes, the word “crap” hasn’t come close to being considered swearing in over 30 years. And even if it was. It’s just a word. There are no bad words. Bad thoughts, bad intentions. And [just] words. (to quote George Carlin).
Wow, this blog is really something. I actually read every entry. Interesting, yes, but the ad hominem tangents it occasionally flies off on (is that an oxymoron or just moronic?) makes it unintentionally funny. (I know, it’s not right to find humor in others’ discomfort.) I came to this site after 2 days of research on IQ, high IQ societies, intelligence. I’m a teacher by trade; my students learn about the brain and learning and intelligence and dissect a sheep’s brain, but I digress. What really set me off on this journey are the facts that I recently aced the MAT (Miller Analogies Test) for entrance into grad school and was accepted by Mensa (I wanted to do it just because I could; I thought I’d list it on my resume but now I won’t). I promise this is the first (no, the second) time that I’ve mentioned to someone that I aced the MAT and got into Mensa. I promise it will be the last (no, second to last; I have to find a clever way to mention these facts to my mother). Anyway, the funniest story I read on some random IQ site I stumbled onto was this: “I went to the local Kinko’s the other day to have my newly issued Mensa membership card laminated. I didn’t read the sign above the machine very carefully. Soon, the machine was jammed and my card was ruined. The clerk came over to unjam the machine and rescue my property. When he saw the genius card he just looked at me and laughed hysterically.” Another site had this wisdom to share: Remember what Groucho Marx said about not wanting to belong to any club that would have him as a member. Finally, this quote from Oscar Wilde which I gleaned from another search (less random this time): “Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing worth knowing can be taught.” I would twist this to read something like, “Intelligence can be an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing of real value can be measured by a 50-minute test.” O.K., not nearly as beautiful as Oscar Wilde but that’s my point. He was a genius who could do something (write); I’m a certified genius still looking for what it is I do well. Oops, there’s an oblique reference to my having aced the MAT. We Mensa members just can’t be trusted, can we? Oops, another reference to my Mensa membership. . . 😉
Winky emoticon = tongue in cheek, self-deprecating humor. Take this all with a huge grain of salt (or a huge margarita or both)
Oops, now that I’ve re-read the first blog entry I see that the other site which I thought was the source of the Groucho Marx remark was in fact this site. Give me a break—it’s after 1 a.m. and I’ve done way too much Internet searching and reading and expended way too much mental energy on IQ and IQ societies over the past couple of days. Still, this blog is the best thing I’ve seen/done in the past 2 days.
I have to agree with you on this one. My sister has always had a sort of inferiority complex which means she has to prove herself constantly. Well as soon as she found out about Mensa she immediately applied for a home test which she passed. Upon completion she was told she could now take the entry test in a city a few miles from where we lived and could bring another person to have a go at the exam as well.
She brought me along, her little brother, a ten year old completely naive to the world of aptitude tests and a society of intelligentsia. Well we both sat the test and she failed and i passed. For several months i couldn’t figure out why my older sister silently glowered at me. My mother asked me if i felt like attending any of the meetings, but i couldn’t understand the point in socialising with a bunch of “intelligent” people i had never met (i always imagined them in tweed, but i don’t know why…) when i could just as easily spend time with the intelligent people i already knew: my friends. Well after a few months i cancelled my membership as i never used it and my mum was paying to keep me in it.
And my sister, what of her? Well she is actually reading Philosophy at Cambridge University would you believe it?
Still, too stupid for Mensa i suppose.
Femi, I’m glad you have intelligent friends. My experience is that Mensa’s main/best purpose is to allow people to socialize with people they can relate to. (OK nitpickers – I know that should be “to whom they can relate” but it doesn’t read as well!)
There has been at least one study that showed that gifted (high IQ) children became better adjusted socially if they spent a half day a week with other gifted children.
I don’t know if you want to tell your sister that she can probably get into Mensa if she really wants to, if she passed the home test without bending the rules. Because IQ testing is imperfect, the “bar” is not just fairly low, it’s bendy – she only has to get in the top 2% on ANY properly supervised recognized IQ test. If she wants to save money on paying for heaps of tests I suggest she starts with those that favor her particular talents – e.g. from memory, culture-fair tests tend to favor spatial reasoning. Mind you, if she has do a lot of tests to get in she’s likely not to be as good a social fit in Mensa as if she breezed in, although intelligent not-quite-eligible spouses of members often seem to enjoy the Mensa environment, as long as they don’t have inferiority issues.
As for reading Philosophy – I’m not so sure how good a measure of smarts that is. I only ever did one semester of philosophy (Plato) at Uni, and that was so basic I passed by attending one lecture, reading the first page of the text, and doing the exam. IQ, or rather the ability imperfectly measured by IQ tests, is only one part of the mix needed for academic success (unfortunately I missed out on some of the other parts).
Femi, everyone has the right to choose their own experiences and what club they join. What I am seeing here is that you chose not to even check out any of the special interest groups for kids in Mensa before you decided you didn’t want anything to do with them. While that is certainly your right, as a mother, I would probably have checked out the kids groups before you joined to see if you were interested or at minimum had to try going to a group event before letting you quit. The groups for kids tend to be very popular and very much like activities that non-members do, but some add some brain teasing fun in for good measure.
Not all Mensa kids are geeks or socially inept, but the one with extremely high IQ’s (165 or above) do have problems relating to other children because they learn at a different and faster pace. For those kids, being around children who understand them gives them the opportunity to be just one of the gang instead of the smart kid who no one wants to play with.
It’s too bad you never gave it a chance, you may have found some good friends to add to the group you already played with. A kid can never have too many friends.
I don’t believe in forced friendship just because we supposedly have something in common. I would prefer to spend my time with people who are just as clever but didn’t need to take a test ascertain that. Anyway, I was an ADHD kid. I would have blown their social awkwardness up in their faces. And if you were my mother, you would have known that i read the magazines that might have mildly interested me. The closest thing I found that I could relate to was a book club, but i already attended one at school and that was magnificent.
Even now I would prefer to concentrate on my studies, and read my books instead of travelling to the nearest Mensa meeting point, (a 60 minute drive) to talk about our intellectual achievements. Anyway, my school marks are good, so why do I need it…
Femi,
Why do you feel a that any friendship you may or may not have enjoyed from meeting other children in Mensa would have been forced? Are the friendships formed in the cub scouts forced? What about at camp? Or at school? No one of forced to do anything in Mensa. There are hundreds of Special Interest Groups ranging from race car drivers and base jumpers to people who play poker to those who discuss the Harry Potter movies (and books) to those who discuss theoretical Physics. It’s not like all these people have no other friends (although, again, for the super smarties, they may not, but those are pretty rare). Mensa is full of all types of people – only a very few of which ever mention “intellectual achievements” of any sort (now we do share achievements when someone wins a Nobel, Pulitzer, Oscar, or the like. Just like you and your friends would share if they won something awesome for being the best at something), but other than that, and much like with sex – if you’re having it, you don’t need to talk about it.
Driving 60 miles is a drag (I lived in a rural state for a while, so I get the whole driving-forever-to-get-somewhere-thing, and would be MY reason not to join if I were in your shoes, but it does seem that you know very little about what Mensa is really like, but formed a rock-solid opinion anyway. And that is the part that is too bad. You decided not to like these people without meeting them even once. But again, your choice.
Let’s be clear. My reasons for not remaining a part of the clever gang are:
a) It is too far away
b) I don’t need to do it, as it is (although harmless) an unnecessary activity which must be subordinated to any serious academic work.
c) I am a very sociable person – It is completely unnecessary on any social level.
d) I find it to be the conception of a meritocratic society which must now seek for intellectual aggrandisement on a social level.
Anyway I assume I’m what you Mensans might call a lost cause!!
Are you yourself a member? What sort of clubs do you attend? 🙂
I’m sorry I feel like we have centred far too much around me in this conversation!
Oh by the way – just a point of interest, are you a Rowan that is female or male? xxx
Femi,
I think your reasons A through C are absolutely valid, but reason D is based on the continuing public misconception as to why Mensa was created.
After World War II, Great Britain was in tatters. Mensa was started in order for the” brightest minds” in Britain to help restore and improved the the educational, medical and social systems that were sacrificed. That’s all. It was never about joining to prove something to someone else or self-aggrandizing. Now there are some jerks in there – the ones who stupidly call non-members “The lower 98,” but they are a small minority and not representative of the whole. I think because those people are usually the ones who tell people they are members and how smart they are, the rest of the group gets a bad rap.
As for me, I was a member (#100277659) until this year . I was downsized in the recession last year and decide to tighten my belt. I may rejoin, since I just got a great new job (yay!), but even without joining, I still participate in Mensa SIGS since friendships do not end when “official membership” do. It’s all about spending time with friends doing things you enjoy. I go to the book club, and game nights. I used be in the car racing SIG, but that costs a pretty penny, so when my contract at work wasn’t renewed last year, that was an expense I decided to forgo – much like the poker SIG. The monthly dinner parties and brunches are great, but I AM getting sick of Mexican food all the time (L.A. is not a foodie city). Most of my friends are not members of Mensa, btw. It’s never an either/or situation for me where friendship is concerned, and none of my friends considers themselves better than anyone else regardless of what club they belong to or what they do for a living (except for Jae, but he’s a pain in the arse – and is not a friend from Mensa.)
I don’t consider you a lost cause, because I have no agenda other than to try show you that the people who think Mensa is all about boasting and self-importance, are people who have no real idea about Mensa. There is no push for you to join, just a request to not base your opinion of the group on rumor and misinformation. You sound like a smart guy. Joining a club – or not – doesn’t change that.
Rowan
P.S. I am a woman.
Why people hate on Mensa:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Hi Bruce,
I just read the Wikipedia pages your links connected me to. Your running gag argument has me a little puzzled because while I understand your “mensa members have illusory superiority” idea, the article (and we will, for the sake of argument assume it’s accurate even though Wikipedia has a staggeringly high error rate – a whopping 20%) describes the “Downing Effect” as …”the tendency of people with a below average intelligence quotient (IQ) to overestimate their intelligence, and of people with an above average IQ to underestimate their intelligence.”
Now the Dunning-Kruger says that assessment of one’s own skills is relative to one’s own experience and knowledge and that most people (from the under-skilled and undertrained to the highly educated and skilled) over-estimate their abilities.
So I am a little confused as to your point. Are you saying that Mensa members underestimate their intelligence and tend to be like most of the general public in that they have confidence in their abilities that perhaps exceeds their actual skill?
Hi, Rowan:
If you look, those links were not posted by me. Consequently, I can’t answer your question, although your inference makes sense to me.
I stand corrected. For some reason I took the handle “Running gag” to mean you were posting part of a running gag.
Bruce,
It would probably be a waste of money for you to join Mensa. I’m pretty sure you’d qualify, based on the info in your comments, but based on your expressed opinions I doubt that you’d be open minded enough.
Of course you could always try going along to a Mensa social event with an open mind. Since the Mensa members that you know, that you know are Mensa members all strike you as having “something of the same sense that they were special”, I’d suggest not going as a guest of any of them.
By the way, that “sense that they were special” probably comes from a relatively lonely childhood in which they were “the smartest kid on the block” and didn’t have any intellectual peers of their own age. As a child, a high IQ doesn’t just mean smarter – it means you’re years ahead of the average in mental age. The term IQ (Intelligence Quotient) is defined as Mental Age divided by Chronological Age, so a 6 year old with a 150 IQ has a mental development age of 9 – three years older than the average 6 year old, with emotional development somewhere in between (assuming an emotionally healthy environment).
If you want an idea of why Mensa members might enjoy each others company, think about how good friends you were with your slow readers classmates, and how strong those friendships were a year after leaving the slow readers group. Also, look at your circle of friends now, see how many are process workers or the like, and since your friends there are probably the smarter ones, how well do you enjoy the company and conversations of their co-workers when you meet them. If you notice a bit of a social gap there, imagine how much more of a gap if you were less socially skilled, as many Mensa members are.
Whilst I am no longer a member of Mensa, for financial reasons, Mensa helped me bridge the gap towards social normalcy. Through Mensa I found that my IQ was only a small part of my social problem. Yes, I found it easier to relate to other Mensans, and got to practice some social skills, but I also got my IQ into better perspective by meeting Mensans who were pretty stupid despite their IQ, and others who were smart enough to put my IQ ego in it’s place.
I tend to agree with your comments about MENSA members. Having met QUITE A FEW of them, I found them to rather obnoxious too. I’m sure they all aren’t but this particular group was very into others knowing they were in MENSA. Mostly though, I found them to be obnoxious for other reasons.. mostly social ineptitudes though.
Basically though, I agree with the original post here because I feel that MENSA is for the type of person who seeks validation. Most truly brilliant minded people already don’t feel like they “fit” in with the societal common denominator so a group like MENSA gives them that needed bond with others on their level. It also however, can propagate the sometimes elitist attitudes and superiority complexes that I experienced.
I too was invited to join and have taken their test but ultimately declined because I really didn’t feel the desire to be part of a club to validate my intelligence. Also plainly put, I simply have no time for it. I would much rather engage in more personally creative persuits to which would yield tangible results (i.e. music production, painting, writing etc.) Hanging out in a room playing board games and acting smart seems kind of silly.
If you are very intelligent, most likely the people in your life that mean the most to you will be too. All of my best friends have been brilliant. It’s not a conscious decision but it just happens that way. It is only human nature to form the strongest bonds with those that are the most like yourself. Like I said, MENSA serves only that need validation.
I am a 23 year old male in Mensa. I qualified as a kid (through school standardized tests, and never thought anything of it. Then last year I couldn’t find a job after graduating college. So i decided that joining Mensa would look good on the resume. Voila! Job! Thanks Mensa!
And I get to carry this fancy laminate card around in my wallet to impress the ladies ;). No, but seriously: Besides Mensa on my resume, maybe 5% of my friends know that I am in it, and only because I discussed my scheme to get a job with them. Bringing that up in conversation is just a cry for approval! Somebody give this guy a hug and a pat on the back! Congratulations smart fella you’re still a pretentious twat. I despise people who gloat, especially when they first meet someone new. I am a very modest person, and seek to attract friends and lovers based on honest, non-exaggerated versions of my complete self…not just my 1 redeeming quality. But hey, not everyone is perfect.
Just passing by while googling for general information on IQ testing,and found the comments to your post interesting.
While I agree that judging the entire MENSA group based on a few snobby members is unfair, I wonder what exactly is mensa for.
Taken from the website:
Mensa “provides a forum for intellectual exchange among members. Its activities include the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, journals, special-interest groups, and local, regional, national, and international gatherings; the investigations of members’ opinions and attitudes; and assistance to researchers, inside and outside Mensa in projects dealing with intelligence or Mensa.” [Mensa Constitution]
Mensa has three stated purposes:
to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity;
to encourage research in the nature, characteristics and uses of intelligence; and
to promote stimulating intellectual and social opportunities for its members.
~*~
I don’t know all the MENSA groups internationally but I would assume each operates within a similar framework. And here in Singapore, they have different specific activity or interest groups for their members….. The thing is, there are plenty such groups already so I don’t know what point there is to get a mensa membership and join a group just because the other members are all mensa people too? And really, meetings here and there can’t possibly contribute anything that would be “for the benefit of humanity”. Same thing goes for the bit about stimulating intellectual and social opportunities – all these are readily available whether there is Mensa or not. So I just don’t understand the whole point of mensa.
It is as if the members are thinking that they don’t want to be part of just a “science club” but in “Mensa Science Club” because the people there will necessarily be their “level”.
And erm, I might be wrong here, but the general consensus is that in any way highlighting that you are a Mensa member in your resume actually makes employers think less of you. 🙂
Sorry for adding so many comments… but the site also says there are “110,000 Mensans in 100 countries throughout the world”.
110,000 members isn’t too many. And considering the number of people who’ve met at least one snobby Mensa member who shows off their membership, the numbers do add up so maybe Bruce isn’t too far off the mark……………. lol!
Here’s my verdict: Some people from Mensa are egocentric, elitist bastards, while some are really nice, interesting people. To be fair though, once you meet a person from any place or any background, you develop a fixed mental image of all people of the same personality/background/type e.t.c. based on that one person. For example, I get referred to as a “geek” because I am a PC gamer (how petty!) and a bloke I know gets referred to as a “chav” because he listens to drum and bass, though he is nothing like anyone I know who would represent someone who most would call a “chav”.
Bruce, for the sake of this comment, let’s call a spade a spade… shall we?
You have doubts that you’d get accepted into Mensa, which is why you feel the need to put it down. People tend to fear rejection.
Amazing how you think you can assess my personality when you don’t even know me.
The truth is, you couldn’t be more wrong. Based on the people I’ve met who belong to Mensa, I have no doubt that I’d qualify if I cared to make the effort. But it just doesn’t interest me.
I have been a member of Mensa for 8 years and only two people – apart from other members of course – know about it. I don’t talk about it and I don’t mention it in my resume either, just because I have observed that most people have a wrong image in their heads about what the club is about, and get to wrong conclusions about me before knowing me and don’t bother inquiring.
Please don’t leave it there! This is makes very enjoyable reading with some genuine L.O.L. moments too.
Joining Mensa is a way for people to meet acquaintances-come-friends with whom they share a similar mentality. Please note I state ‘mentality’ not personality. I have had too many conversations with people who recieve genuine mental stimulation out of discussing the most banal ‘issues’ that I, these days, I simply refuse to waste my time on something that is not interesting. It is nice to be able to introduce a new concept and have that person at least understand the various constituents comprising the subject of a conversation to provide a valid statement rather than feign interest and utter impulsive remarks (by ‘impulsive remarks’ I simply mean the instant-opinions based on very little information that I have experienced e.g. “Yeah! I hate those guys too…they always beat us!”).
Correlation does not prove causation however it can alter one’s perception of possibility and probability. I have had the most stimulating conversations with sharp-minded individuals of all ages that are able to boast either a wealth of knowledge, experience or both AND display insight into past and present situatuions. If Mensa offers an opportunity for such people to get together then I applaud it and will gladly pay a membership fee to ensure it’s prolonged existence.
Statements along the lines of: ‘I could do X but I don’t see the point in trying/don’t want to/etc’ are nothing but pure arrogance. The belief that you could do something you have not done before without actually trying anything that can be an accurate comparison is nothing but a dillusion. The supervised test is not at all like online tests and other ‘intelligence tests’ may very well vary in the areas they focus on. Instead of people making remarks that only serve to inflate their ego and/or make other’s perceice them as arrogant just stick to the last part i.e ‘I don’t want to do the test’. There is no concrete evidence that guarantees a pass or fail before the test is done therfore no such conclusion can logically be deduced.
I am not attacking any individual only dispute the concept of doing the above. I have come across many who have done it and yet very few who address it.
Good day (Good night)
p.s. Doing or not doing the Mensa test is your perogative however I suggest that you do it. Not for membership or bragging rights but so you can finally get closure on something that otherwise you will never, ever, truly know. It is like a man saying: ‘I could get her to go out with me anytime I want…I just don’t like her that’s why I don’t bother’. Are you content with just believing instead of definitely knowing?
“Statements along the lines of: ‘I could do X but I don’t see the point in trying/don’t want to/etc’ are nothing but pure arrogance.”
In some cases, that might be so. And if you feel better assuming that’s true in my case, you have my full permission to do so. You’d be wrong, but if making the assumption makes you feel better, please go ahead and keep making it.
“Doing or not doing the Mensa test is your perogative however I suggest that you do it. Not for membership or bragging rights but so you can finally get closure on something that otherwise you will never, ever, truly know. ”
Talk about your LOL moments 🙂
Your talk of closure leaves me with a wry smile, because it implies that belonging or not belonging to Mensa is of great importance to me, and that I’ve agonized over it for years. However, nothing could be further from the truth.
I wrote the original article over four years ago, in response to a specific suggestion. Since then, I have written hundreds of articles and blog entries, both professional and unpaid, and pretty much the only times I’ve thought of Mensa are when someone has left a comment here. Admittedly, attempts like yours to psycho-analyze me from a distance are mildly amusing in their wild inaccuracy, but I don’t feel any great need to explain or justify myself to a stranger. I’m sure you will take anything I say as a rationalization, and, more importantly, I just don’t care. It’s not as though we’re ever likely to meet.
But boy, do you people in Mensa engage in some frantic contortions when someone suggests that your emperor is buck naked!
Hi. I am from England. I was just browsing and came across your site.
I would like to add my experience as a previous mensa member.
My boyfriend asked me to do a mensa test, telling me I would pass because I was so intelligent. I did pass.But where did it get me? My parents had never heard of mensa., neither had my friends. In the U.K, for those that have heard.. mentioning mensa membership is considered conceited/big-headed/full of yourself.
just a ‘ no go ‘ area.
I have since stopped my ( never did me any good) membership.
Couldn’t agree more! As a software engineer, this reminds me of the International Golden Key Society, which has chapters in various universities around the world. Entry criterion is grades in the top percentile (in any subject). Members tend to have fantastic A+ exam technique, which propels them into post-grad research groups and employment in which they are usually baby-sat by lesser mortals who do their actual work for them.
Nice to hear, that you are so sure you would qualify to Mensa, but how does that differ from people bragging that they are in Mensa? If anything it sounds even more like self-appointed elitism.
It should be obvious from the context that I was making a simple statement, not bragging, and that I don’t think that either intelligence or membership in Mensa makes anyone part of an elite.
Anyway, I’m sure that if I expressed so much as a doubt about whether I would qualify, then people like you would claim that I had no right to criticize what I couldn’t understand.
If an athletic person joins an athletics club, nobody bats an eyelid. So what’s the problem with MENSA? I had a terrible time growing up as somebody with an above-average intelligence, and sought other people who had perhaps undergone similar experiences. I didn’t do well at school, and was frustrated because I could comprehend everything very easily but couldn’t reproduce it, and a speech impediment didn’t help either. So for me it was a type of vindication of my intellect. It was also the idea of a peer-group that interested me, hopefully one that would see past the dross of unintelligent, everyday life. For that I make no apologies. We are all entitled to our own aesthetics, are we not? Knowing that it makes some people uncomfortable, I never discuss it, but if i find somebody I think might benefit from membership, I will suggest it. It is odd how intelligence above all else elicits these sorts of reactions, presumably because others feel inferior; they can do nothing about their innate intelligence. But, as I say, this does not apply to athletic ability, which is a form of elitism that is perfectly acceptable, even laudable.Therefore we must assume intelligence is seen as a thing apart, as if it makes you a Class One human, whereas other traits do not have the ability to confer this. That says more about those who do not qualify to become MENSA members than those who do.
Bruce, I think you are a genius! I agree with everything you say. A club for the intelligent… it’s as wanky as a club for the beautiful. I think they are missing the point of their gift of intelligence. Self gratification and elitism for sure.
Hmm. I have never mentioned my Mensa membership in conversation. I have rarely mentioned my Ivy League education. I believe that my education is far more impressive and exclusive than my Mensa membership. I generally downplay my job–which I also think is far more impressive and exclusive than my Mensa membership. I can understand exclusivity to a point. But I have never understood why anyone would ever have occasion to brag about being smart or rich or attractive. It seems self-evident. I accept that I’m smart. I get constant feedback about that. People are incessantly commenting to me about how smart I am and what a deep thinker I am and how I seem to know a lot about a lot of things. But I don’t feel smart. Generally I feel pretty confused about a lot of what is going on. This may be because it’s not as interesting to reflect on things I already know as it is to try to figure out things I don’t know. Or maybe I’m just a weird guy. But it would just seem silly to me to mention Mensa in casual conversation–unless I thought someone had a particular interest in that organization.
I know this thread is eons old, but I found it and want to comment anyway.
So many people here have said they’ve met a few snotty Mensans, and since there are so few Mensans in the world, Mensans are snotty. That’s like saying they know a few people from Manchester, NH (yes, I looked it up – I am not a game show savant!) who are obnoxious, so it must be a snotty city. OK…?
I joined a running club this year, brag about it to high heaven, am super proud of myself, and everyone is proud of me and cheers me on. But if I bragged about being smart, about having so many ideas, being naturally quick at learning and excelling, well, they’d think I was a royal B. Why is being smart so shameful?
Sure, I hold on to my identity as a Mensan. I’m also proud to be a minority woman with a degree from an Ivy League school, bringing up my people. I’m proud to be a bike commuter and vegetarian to help keep our planet clean. Everyone has groups they identify with, and a lot of times it says nothing about them individually. Think of people who think they’re so cool ’cause they’re from this city or that country. And if you have a group that you DO have something in common with – whether it’s your religion, nationality, or your personal identity as a punk, a business person or whatever – you tend to identify and embrace it as part of your personality.
There are some people who know I’m a Mensan; some family, my boyfriend and best friends. I’m more likely to tell about my interests and hobbies in conversations. I won’t lie – sometimes, when I’m feeling like crap, like I’m a failure for not being rich or notable, it’s nice to pick up the Mensa Bulletin and feel like, “OK, I’m worthy in this way.” I also use it on my resume – I’ll use anything I have! This economy is not so friendly.
I haven’t been to a Mensa meeting yet because I am a bit intimidated. Is everyone going to be showing off their brain power? But I remember attending a gifted camp, Johns Hopkins CTY, when I was young. I was dreading it, thinking everyone would be horrible and desperately nerdy. And there were some really awkward people there; but there were some really amazing, sympathetic, totally cool people. It was nice to connect with them – people who knew what it was like to be outside, really sensitive souls. I imagine meetings might be like that – I think I might go!
People forget – being smart isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. there’s a lot of isolation, a lot of hyper-awareness that can easily lead to depression, and a lot of fighting with your brain. It’s not easy not being normal. So if there’s a club that makes us feel welcome, who are any of you to shame it?
It’s funny, every time I read these blogs I discover the same common threads as they relate to the author:
– They wrongly assume members are elitists.
– They are convinced IQ tests do not measure intelligence (They do. They measure how fast you can solve a simple problem in relation to others.)
– They find every excuse to not join (as though they had the option).
– The malign us, which simply makes them look like jealous fools to us.
– They assume we boast about our membership. (In fact I do my best to keep this knowledge hidden from the general public because people believe act out bullet points 1-4.
For us, this is a place where we can be ourselves. We like the fact that this is exclusive to us because fame, money, and good looks will not gain you access.
Tell me, do you do this on every blog you come across? As for the IQ test, it is not an accurate measure of intelligence. Unless you are one of the scientists who researched the subject, you are wrong. And guess what? If you can’t act normally and humbly, no one cares. Did you even read the article?
Mensa’s for people who haven’t achieved anything. I can’t think of anyone with serious post-graduate credentials who would even consider it. Mensa is used to credentialize those without credentials.
If the comments have proved anything to me, it’s that MENSA members get offended very easily and don’t read articles in their entirety. For people who are intellectually superior, they behave just like “normal” people. Get over yourselves.
Stop labelling all Mensans as ‘elitists’! Most Mensans don’t boast about their membership to friends – in fact they often try to hide it, you probably know more Mensans than you realise. You base your assumptions about Mensa on socially immature twits who mention their Mensa membership at every opportunity. They are not representative of what Mensa is about.
Hi. Bruce. It was a very thoughtful article you wrote. It made me think a lot too.
First of all, I appreciate your sharing opinions about how insecure people go bragging about their IQs. I’ve seen lots of them. And honestly, I pity them. Because they have nothing else to say other than telling others of their supposedly superior intelligence. Let me clarify this, that people who brag about it are, indeed, smart enough to get into MENSA but yet stupid enough not to realize revealing their membership actively to others is not an effective way of communication.
IQ, is only measured by so called intelligence test that is made to give an approximate estimate of one’s intelligence. To put it simply, none of them are quite accurate at all. Just scoring high on a standardized test doesn’t say much about you as a person either.
So, just a little suggestion to how you perceive the organization. While some may be just stupid douches who are only good at puzzles, more people are open minded and appreciative of discussion with regard to such topic, or the article which you took the initiative to share with people with access to the internet.
I would like to personally discuss with you on this matter Bruce. I’m not sure I am worthy of your time, but if we wanted to talk and come to an agreement, please reply to this message or you can send an email to me
egpyyuichiro@gmail.com
I appreciate your reading this to the end.
Thanks for the offer. But if you notice, this is a post I wrote over six years ago. It wasn’t a burning issue for me then, and it isn’t one now. There’s really nothing to discuss, let alone to come to an agreement about.
You wrote an article about why you didn’t join Mensa and from the first couple sentences were bragging about being able to get in… Then took an elitist “But I’m better than that” attitude. What a joke. You come off bragging in the same way as your cliff diving friend….. and yes, putting a label on every Mensa member based on your personal experience with a few makes you sound very short sighted, narrow minded and ignorant.
I hope you’re not an example of the best that Mensa can produce. Your logic is as faulty as southern California:
a. I express an opinion, but I make no claim to be better than anyone else.
b. I don’t bring Mensa into every conversation I have, and have written about it only in this article. That’s hardly like the Mensa member I mention.
c. How else do people judge, except by personal opinion? A blog is by definition about personal opinion, and I make no claim to scientific validity.
d. Adding personal attack to personal attack says more about your limitations than anything about me.
So, under the circumstances, you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t take your opinion very seriously.
I was invited to join or at least take the test, for Mensa some fifteen years ago in Toronto.
Right to the point,
I asked one question,… As the highly intelligent / superior people on this world, how can we raise those less fortunate than us, up to our level or perhaps beyond?
The answer was very simply, it isn’t our concern.
That was the end of Mensa for me.
If I going to join an organization of highly intelligent people, they must first be such.
You may be able to state a fact, or remember a quote, does that employ intelligence or a good memory. Come Saturday can you fix the lawn mower or the outboard engine? Most individuals have a smattering of knowledge which, usually. Is defined as being intelligent. Some are highly versed in specific fields however wane in common sense. What is “intelligence”
Random question: what is a hogger (hint related to transportation)?
Jim C.
I’m reasonably sure I’d qualify but I don’t think I’ll bother. Huh? I think I can be great at all things but why bother lol.
Anyways, I find mensa kinda pointless and scientology like. It’s just a club made to pat yourself on the back it seems like. I scored in the 1%. I wouldn’t join a club though. In Spanish the word Menso means dummy lol
Mensa is a business. Pay for membership. They should pay top scorers is how I see it. Otherwise gimme the test for fun and GTFO. Being in a “club” that scored high on a test is not reason enough. Clubs for business owners, clubs for chess players, clubs for martial artist etc.. Is a good reason for a club. Having a high iq is not enough to be a clue honestly. What if you scored high on the test buy are unemployed, living at home, never took up a sport or hobby and have social issues? No thanks.
Now, to those that are thinking “you’re judging based on what?” even IF all mensa members were fun and social (which I doubt for other reasons that I don’t want to get into), there are already clubs to join that focus on specific things, unless you have no interest in sports, hobbies etc.. Time is limited, don’t be a Menso.
Hi, Bruce (and readers).
I know this discussion is long dead, but I really felt the need to address a few things.
First of all, several commenters were hinting at (or claiming) that your motivation for criticizing Mensa or questioning possible motivations for joining Mensa comes from “sour grapes” feelings – that you are, deep down, convinced that you wouldn’t pass the test, hence you had to make it a less desirable goal in order to reduce the pain of inadequacy. To this I can respond that I second almost everything you wrote in the article, and I have passed the test, with a pretty high score. I was going to join Mensa and was very smug (to myself) about it, but I had a few weeks of sporadic discussions with my gf about the topic and I changed my mind – she raised many of the points you raise, actually. I was sort of defensive at first, but then I started questioning MY motivation for joining Mensa, but also the kind of organization Mensa seems to be. Note that I said SEEMS to be.
This leads me to my second point: some people asserted that your reasoning is flawed because one cannot assess the value of an organization that he hasn’t experienced personally, as a member. My response is: you CAN assume with a solid amount of certainty people’s motivation for joining this specific club even without joining yourself, when you look at the facts – the eligibility factor, the range of activities offered in the groups, the presumed absolute measurability of mental capacity etc. Many of these were raised in the article and in the comments, so I won’t expand.
The third issue is the one about judging from a small sample, that some people claimed you are guilty of. Well, I highly doubt that MOST Mensa members hide the fact they are members (as some Mensans claimed here), simply because many people seem to know at least a few people that are members and don’t hide it (they either brag about it or “casually” mention in a way that doesn’t seem, and probably doesn’t FEEL like bragging – intelligent people are known for deceiving themselves with rationalization more often than others, simply because they rely on their mind over their “gut feel” more than others) and it is highly improbable that an average person knows more than a handful of Mensa members well (the math is clear – 2 percent of the population are eligible, and it is obviously true that many people don’t join, because they don’t care about this sort of validation NOR the social aspect of Mensa, because they dislike the organization and its values, stated or actual, or it simply never comes up in their lives).
That about wraps it up. Thumbs up to the rare hero who read this to the end and please, do excuse my potential misuse of certain words or phrases – English is not my second language, and I have never lived in an English-speaking country.
P. S. for those who wonder: I don’t work the fact I was accepted to Mensa and declined to join in ANY conversation, ever 😀